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Talk:Metroid Husk
Husks present in Fusion Greetings everyone, there is currently a small conflict of edits involving the relevance of the husks present in Fusion. The main issue is that all husks left behind by the Omega are Larva Metroid membranes. An additional, but negligible issue, is the number of husks found and whether they match the number of metamorphosis a Metroid would theoritically undergo from its Infant form all the way to the Omega stage. The edit before mine states that the Larva husks are potentially the result of "limited aesthetic assets (since unique husks for stages other than Larva and Gamma would not be designed until Samus Returns)". I argue this is far from the case considering that Metroid II already had two unique husks: the larva membrane and the Gamma Metroid body with its back torn open. I'd also like to point out that Adam mentions in the same game moments earlier the existence of rapid growth techniques that can make an Infant grow rapidly into an Omega. These, along with the fact that a giant Metroid larva was featured in the previous game, Super Metroid, leads to a reasonable assumption that the shape of the Metroid husks in Fusion is actually intentional and not the result of limited aesthetic assets. Concerning the number of Metroid husks, my last edit removed the focused relevance on the number of husks and instead simply mentions that there are five Larva membranes. I did, however, slightly expand on the main article that Samus Returns retcons the number of husks produced, regardless of how distinct or similar the prior form was (for instance, the Alpha and Gamma are both "insects", yet a husk is shed in between them). Thus, because of this, it is not implausible to think that a husk would also be shed between the infant and larva stage, despite their extreme similarities in physiology. Feel free to discuss further on the matter before any additional edits are made. Latinlingo (talk) 01:39, May 4, 2018 (UTC) :Thanks for moving this discussion to the Talk page... in hindsight, that was probably what I should have done instead of my edits. :These are all very good and valid points you make, so I would like to present my counter arguments regarding my recent edit: :My argument about limited aesthetic assets was admittedly rather weak, especially because I cannot remember if all four Sector 1 husks share the same sprite or each husk uses a unique sprite. Even though only Larva and Gamma husks appear in Return of Samus, there was nothing that could have stopped the Fusion sprite artists from designing more unique husks clearly modeled after each stage. But, I made this case due to the familiarity of the Larva husk's shape. Only Larva husks are permanent features of the Return of Samus level design, each one indicating that a Larva somewhere has undergone metamorphosis and grown into an Alpha (or beyond). The Gamma husks only appear briefly and then quickly vanish off-screen. Therefore, players (and potentially, the developers of Fusion) would be more familiar with the significance of the former than the latter. :I'd also like to point out that "rapid growth techniques" does not necessarily mean "skipping stages of a life cycle". To make a comparison... let's say you have two Bulbasaurs. You raise one by training it normally, and you raise the other by feeding it thirty-something Rare Candies. The latter will evolve into a Venosaur in a fraction of the time that it takes to raise the former. However, that does not change the fact that both specimens must first evolve into Ivysaurs before they can become Venosaurs. Much in the same way, I don't think "rapid growth" means that it skips straight from Larva to Omega, but rather the time spent in each intermediary stage (Alpha, Gamma, Zeta) is much shorter. Besides, if the Metroid just kept growing and growing and growing as a Larva, then why would it be shedding so many husks (see below)? :The numbers issue is the one that I think is far more interesting. As I said in my edit, there is currently no evidence in any Metroid game that an Infant sheds a husk upon growing into Larva. There are no husks to be seen anywhere in Phase 9, Tourian, Room MW, or Area 8, the known locations where Infants have matured into Larvae off-screen. As for Infants becoming Larvae on-screen in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, it's an instantaneous growth with no shedding of any husks. Similarly, any known Larvae that increase in size do not leave husks, whether off-screen (such as the Baby) or on-screen (such as the Tallon Metroids). Therefore, because of this, the most likely answer is that Infants and Larvae do not shed husks when they simply grow in size. :Thus, we are left with what is apparently an extra Metroid husk that is never accounted for. If we assume that all five husks belong to the Omega Metroid, then the Trivia section should note that this is the only instance of a Metroid game suggesting that an Infant leaves behind a husk upon maturing into a Larva. Isn't that worth noting? :I was also offering an alternate explanation, based directly upon what is seen in Return of Samus and Samus Returns. In those games, each Larva husk accounts for a single Metroid. Any non-Larva husks (such as the Gamma husks in both games, or the Alpha and Zeta husks in Samus Returns) quickly disappear. If Fusion follows these same rules, then the presence of four Larva husks in Sector 1 could suggest that at least four Larvae escaped into Sector 1 and matured into Alphas. Just like the ten SA-Xs mentioned by Adam, only one of these Alphas (as an Omega) is actually seen in-game, while the rest are killed off-screen when the BSL crashes into SR388. This is just as plausible (if not more so, due to being based directly upon in-game evidence from the rest of the series) as the proposal that Infants shed husks. If we're going to mention one case of speculation, why not another? :Any thoughts? --PeabodySam (talk) 20:15, May 4, 2018 (UTC) Hi PeabodySam! I thank you for correcting the mistakes I made regarding the number of molts Samus actually witnesses in Return of Samus. AM2R greatly spoiled me as of late and has made my memories of the original game slightly off. I agree with you on adding the following: "Trivia section should note that this is the only instance of a Metroid game suggesting that an Infant leaves behind a husk upon maturing into a Larva." I'll get to work on this right away. Regarding the other points you brought up: I would agree with you on players and developers being more familiar with the Larva husks in Fusion, IF the game didn't show us any Alpha, Gamma and Zeta Metroids in the restricted lab. By putting those Metroid forms in full view, there was nothing to prevent developers from putting a Gamma Metroid husk near the end of the game that would easily remind players "hey, that's the thing I saw in the Metroid lab". Instead, they only placed Larva husks, suggesting they wanted to imply something else. About your comparisons of Metroids from different games, I'll tackle on Metroid II ''first. It is true that a single larva husk on SR388 = a single Metroid. However, if there were multiple Metroids running about on the BSL after the Restricted Lab exploded, the developers would have certainly put far more effort and in-game info to make sure we all came to this conclusion, similar to how they made sure we knew there were more than 1 SA-X on the station despite Samus only fighting a single one in each encounter. But nothing states there was more than one Metroid survivor. Additionally, every husk Samus comes across on the BSL is bigger than the previous one, which suggests there is a single growing Metroid, eventually leading to the final, largest husk and the Omega Metroid in the docks. The inconsistency between the husks on SR388 and the BSL can be easily attributed to the unnatural rapid growth technique used by the scientists on the BSL. Adam barely touches upon the subject, thus it is impossible to list all the changes the technique brings to a Metroid's metamorphosis/life-cycle. What we DO know, is that something unnatural made an Infant Metroid reach the final form quickly while shedding larger and larger Larva husks. With only these facts to work with, the most logical assumption (with said facts) is that we had a giant Larva roaming around until it reached a sufficient mass to become an Omega. You brought up Tallon Metroids and their infants for comparisons. It's... difficult to use Metroids from the Prime games as examples due to the fact that they have their own sets of rules that dont necessarily match those in the 2D games, both story-wise and gameplay-wise. These differences are explained away by them being mutants. Thus, while an Infant Tallon Metroid does indeed grow into a larva in a matter seconds without discarding a membrane, we can't ignore the fact that this occurs only when it is exposed to the radioactive substance: Phazon. Additionally, Infant Tallon Metroids look heavily underdevelopped compared to a natural Infant from SR388. With these distinctions, its not exactly reliable to use them as a basis for the SR388 Metroids. Currently, no game in the series has visually shown a natural Infant Metroid growing into a Larva, nor have we seen a Metroid transform into a Queen. ''Samus Returns currently presents a husk for every stage that Samus is lucky enough to witness; in other words, she happens to be at the right place at the right time. She's not given the opportunity to see a Metroid become a Queen, but we can safely assume it creates a husk just as the prior stages has been shown to do thus far. At this point, wouldn't it be odd for the infant to be the only stage to not leave behind organic material? Considering an Infant's small size, perhaps its shed husk merely consists of skin, or a material that easily breaks down/disintegrates which might explain why there are none present in SR388's hive? Speaking of Infants, the series has yet to reveal how a Larva ends up inside a Queen's spinal plate. I theorize that an Infant goes inside her plate soon after hatching and becomes a larva within. Perhaps their shed husk remains within the hole, similar to how a bee leaves behind its discarded skin inside the honeycomb cell it grew up in. To summarize, I will add one of your suggestions and bring about the changes necessary. Latinlingo (talk) 05:35, May 7, 2018 (UTC) :No problem! AM2R is such a fantastic game, it's easy to see how it would displace the original in the minds of many Metroid fans! I figured as such, since this wiki had a few other details (such as stating that SR388 Underground played exclusively throughout Phase 2) that are correct for AM2R but incorrect for Return of Samus. That's one of the reasons why I enjoyed going back and playing the original, to see how it compared to the two remakes. :I think I'm largely satisfied with the way that the page currently discusses the issue, following our conversation. :I still believe that it is worth noting that Return of Samus has one Larva husk per Metroid, and how this may or may not be relevant to Fusion. We could word it as such: "In Return of Samus, each Metroid leaves behind only a single Larva Metroid husk. While this could suggest that multiple Metroids escaped into Sector 1, this is unlikely because the fact that each husk is bigger than the last implies that all five husks were left behind by a single Metroid that continued to grow in size." :I don't think it's that unlikely for the Infant to not shed a husk while growing into a Larva, since a Larva is basically a larger Infant, and any instance we've seen of an Infant or Larva growing in size has never left behind a husk. While they are physiologically similar, the Alpha/Gamma and Zeta/Omega transitions are different enough in more aspects than merely size (especially in Samus Returns) that I could see how they would warrant husk-shedding. But, as I said, I'm satisfied with the way the page now reflects Fusion being the only game that implies a Larva shedding a husk. :--PeabodySam (talk) 15:09, May 9, 2018 (UTC)